Kim Parker Grows Hope

Video

Audio

Episode Synopsis

Kim Parker, President and CEO of Food Security Structures Canada, joins hosts Joe and Holly to talk about new technologies helping to mitigate food insecurity both here in Canada and around the world (both literally and figuratively).

Food Security Structures Canada, established six years ago, specializes in controlled environment agricultural structures that enable year-round food production regardless of location or climate challenges.

Kim describes their innovative agri-tunnels, which combine vertical farming with aeroponic and hydroponic systems. These systems can grow a wide variety of crops, from traditional leafy greens to more experimental crops like root vegetables, including radishes, carrots, and beets. The company's technology allows for growing in extreme conditions and has proven particularly resilient to climate change impacts.

The discussion also highlights Canada's significant dependence on imported fresh produce (60-80%), emphasizing the need for local food production solutions. Kim shares how their systems are price-competitive with traditional produce while offering fresher, longer-lasting products with zero waste. The company's commitment to accessibility extends to making their technology affordable and adaptable for various communities.

Kim's personal background, including her corporate sales experience and Indigenous heritage, influences the company's approach to community engagement and food security solutions. She emphasizes the importance of listening to communities' needs before implementing solutions, whether in Canada or internationally.

The conversation explores future developments, including partnerships with nuclear energy companies for power solutions and potential applications in space farming through collaborations with NASA. Throughout the interview, Kim maintains that their primary focus remains on Earth-based food security, driven by the mission to make fresh, nutritious food accessible to all.

Links Mentioned

• FSSC Website
• FSSC on Instagram
• FSSC on Facebook
• FSSC on LinkedIn

Transcript

Joe
Riddle me this, Holly Pugsley, what happens when you combine a team of engineering students, a desire for serene tranquility and meditation, and a medium bronze 2003 Dodge Dakota SLT?

HOLLY
I have no idea, Joe.

JOE
A snoezelen!

HOLLY
Bless you!

JOE
No, we created this snoezelen at The PATCH working with a team of Western University engineering students as a way to combine urban agriculture with a mental health respite for some of our participants.

HOLLY
Oh, that's cool. Like the hydroponics room at our Innovation Center.

JOE
That's the one.

HOLLY
Okay, but what does that have to do with the Dodge Dakota?

JOE
Oh, I just needed them to build it to fit into that particular truck because it's the only way I could make sure we can move it to our offices.

HOLLY
Always thinking ahead, Joe. From Webisodes, this is GrowAbility, a digital documentary at the intersection of urban agriculture, food security, and community.

JOE
On this episode, we speak with Kim Parker, President and CEO of Food Security Structures Canada, which provides the latest in ag-technology that, as you'll soon learn, is literally out of this world.

HOLLY
Yep. Food Security Structures Canada provides technology and solutions for organizations to grow high-quality, fresh and nutritious produce in any environment, regardless of the climate or time of year.

JOE
And by any environment, we even mean the cold, dark reaches of outer space.

HOLLY
And as someone who works with hydroponics at both The Patch and my company, Just Keep Growing, I know how important Kim's company is for providing not only food security, but also for addressing climate change.

JOE
Yeah. Plus, Food Security Structures Canada is also concerned with reducing food waste, which all too often ends up rotting in landfills.

HOLLY
Plus, as you've been hinting, I know they're even working with other organizations around growing food in outer space, which I really hope she talks about.

JOE
Me too. But before we get our conversation with Kim off the ground, if you like this podcast, please rate and review us.

HOLLY
If YouTube is more your vibe, please like and subscribe.

JOE
Plus, we're working on some amazing new ideas and stories over at GrowAbilityPod.com, including some further information on this newsland and blog posts from past guests of the podcast.

HOLLY
Make sure to sign up for our free, fresh and nutritious newsletter to get early access to this exclusive new material for your reading and viewing pleasure.

JOE
And we want to hear from you. Send ideas, questions, or suggestions for the sorts of people you want to hear from on future episodes to hosts at GrowAbilityPod.com.

HOLLY
And sadly, this is our final episode we captured in the beautiful offices of Tech Alliance of Southwestern Ontario. Thank you so much for inviting us to record this round of interviews in your stunning space.

JOE
And speaking of space, let's launch into our chat with Food Security Structures Canada's Kim Parker.

JOE
Kim, thank you so much for joining us today.

KIM
You're welcome.

JOE
For those who may be unfamiliar, what is Food Security Structures Canada?

KIM
So Food Security Structures Canada is a company we started about six years ago that we do controlled environment agricultural structures and the growing systems inside of them, to help empower local communities, local individuals to grow food all year long, regardless of their location or climate challenges.

JOE
So are you a value-added reseller of this tech or are you developing your own technology?

KIM
Both, actually. So we have some technology that we've developed and then we look for best-in-class in some of the other areas. So our focus was that if there was something existed that was doing the job, it could do it very well, why recreate the wheel? But then there were certain areas within the controlled environment agricultural space that we were looking to innovate. So we have a combination of the two technologies.

HOLLY
The phrase food security is in your company's name. Is this just a catchphrase or is this a deeper meaning?

KIM
Yeah, it's the reason we exist. And we put it right in our name and I've had a lot of people say to me, it's a long name, Food Security Structures Canada. You should shorten it. And I've kind of resisted that suggestion simply because every time we say the name of the company, it reminds us why we exist. We exist to help individuals, communities who are struggling with food insecurity, you know, whether they have access to fresh, nutritious food, whether it's affordable, and looking for ways that we can help them with that to make sure that every individual has access to the fresh food that they want to have within their life and to support their family.

HOLLY
Is there any limit to the types of produce that can be grown with hydroponics? And what's your favorite food we're currently growing in your system?

KIM
Yeah, great question. The system we have is a vertical hybrid of aeroponic and hydroponic. So hydroponic, the plant's roots are sitting in water all of the time, and there's only so many plants that like that. There's a much bigger variety that prefer the drip irrigation system that we have that let the roots dry out a bit in between each of the watering cycles and nutrition they're getting. So we're able to grow a wide variety of crops. We recommend a polyvarietal approach. So rather than just having one type of crop growing, grow all kinds of things. And we really let the communities that we work with, or the grower, really dictate what is it that your local community wants. And that's going to be different from Canadian communities to communities that we're working with around the world, understanding what is it that they want to eat. So we're able to do everything from, of course, the leafy greens and herbs, which are the most common, strawberries. We've just finished some crops with peas and beans. And we've got some really great experimental crops going right now. We've got broccoli, cauliflower. But what's really exciting, we're just actually getting some of our first harvest of root vegetables in the vertical grow wall.

HOLLY
Wow.

KIM
We have grown bins that we've often done roots, vegetables in, or plants that need larger root space. But we thought, why don't we try and see there's some more varieties of root vegetables that the mature plant, that the mature fruit doesn't exceed the size of the cup. So we said, let's give it a try. And so we've actually right now have onions, turnip, beets, radishes, carrots growing in the vertical grow wall.

HOLLY
And how does that like?

KIM
It's been absolutely wild. It's been so amazing. We just actually was really excited last night, just got one of the harvest off of the radishes. I probably have 200 radishes in my fridge right now.

HOLLY
Oh my gosh.

KIM
We planted about three different varieties. We've got everything from whites to reds to one that's almost purple. It's amazing. But what was really exciting about that is that the flavor profile on it is just excellent. They've got that beautiful crunch texture, the nice little bit of heat. Being able to go from seed to harvest in six weeks was the other element of it that was exciting to say that within six weeks of planting a seed, you're getting your first harvest off. And then we figure based on the different germination and sizing, all the rest of it, you're probably three to four weeks, the wall that we planted out with this, we'll get harvest each week of two to 300 radishes per week.

HOLLY
Oh my gosh.

KIM
Over the next couple of weeks. Our vertical grow wall has 720 plants per wall. So it really can produce large quantities of diverse crops, which is what really will make a difference when it comes to production and food security within communities.

JOE
Wow. So I want to go back a little bit. 

KIM
Okay.

JOE
Your background's in corporate sales?

KIM
It is. I have a very diverse background. I spent some time in the legal field, did some time in the not-for-profit, in performance-based, so audience development- sales, and then moved into broadcast, working with radio and television in advertising sales as well. I was in that space for about 13 years as well, too. So a lot of sales background, a lot of understanding how to communicate and share messages with people. Prior to that, though, I come from a small town. We lived just off our family farm. So I grew up with gardens. I grew up growing our own food. I look back on it. My dad was putting himself through law school. You know, we had a young family and we lived with my grandparents. I look back on it now and I realize we really didn't have a lot of money. Dad was working really hard to go through law school and young family and things. Money was not something we had a lot of. But I never noticed that we didn't have a lot of stuff because we always had good food on the table. We lived on a farm. We had the garden. We always had beautiful meals on the table. I look back. If it hadn't been for that garden, I think we would have been far more food insecure than we were. We had that abundance. And I think that really has played a factor in my passion for this. To understand that everybody should have that comfort. Everyone should have access to that fresh food. How can you be your fullest expression of yourself if you're not fueling your body in the way that you deserve? And I think that's one of the reasons we started this company. It's the reason we exist.

HOLLY
Yeah, food is definitely a right, I would say, and we all deserve it.

KIM
I believe it's a right. I believe it's a right that every individual has a right to fresh, nutritious food. We really get back to the hierarchy of need that food, water, shelter: these are the building blocks. How can we as a community and as a society address the more pressing challenges, the bigger picture, the creativity that we are capable of as humans, unless we're dealing with those fundamental needs. And that's why we really look to the communities that struggle in those areas to say, how can we help? We're not going in to fix people. We're giving them the tools to empower them to do and to be in the direction that they want to be in.

HOLLY
It is really powerful giving people the ability to grow their own food. Yeah, it's like not playing God, but you're kind of giving people their ability to help themselves back and depend on themselves, which is extremely valuable.

KIM
It's so empowering. And we've seen it, especially when we've had kids that we're working with, with the plants and with the food and watching them and the excitement when that first little seed germinates and there's this little baby plant, you do feel like you've just given birth and it's exciting. I remember when we had our first strawberries that were just germinating and the very first little one that came up, I literally cried. I was so excited about this because it was part of something that we had worked so hard to do and had been excited about for so long. And then seeing it actually happen was exciting. And our first strawberries, I think, tasted more sweet than any strawberry ever has tasted because there was so much had gone into them.

HOLLY
So much love there.

KIM
Yeah, and the kids get so excited. I know that there have been a number of food literacy programs that we've spoken with and some of the feedback we've heard is that a lot of kids currently are really nervous about eating foods that don't come in a wrapper because so much of our food comes in packaging. So they're struggling with how do we overcome that? How do we help them to understand that that beautiful, fresh carrot is okay. It's not something to be nervous of. And I think we have a role that we can play in helping change that dialog and to help kids to get more comfortable with fresh, nutritious foods.

HOLLY
Definitely.

HOLLY
It seems like a lot more like conditioning that's been done almost like so children are almost blinded by, yeah, it looks more normal when it's coming out of a box or processed or packaged plastic wrap. It is really interesting. It's good to get children more used to it, especially with touching senses. We're almost forgetting all that. How incredibly rewarding it is to see the color of a fruit for the first time and see as you're saying like seeing those first true leaves come out of a plant. It's almost crying worthy. Like it's a beautiful thing to reconnect with, I think. Yeah, it's beautiful.

KIM
And watching the kids respond to it. Adults as well, though. The adults that we've had volunteer to come and help us out at the farm, it's like, I just want to be with the plants. It's a beautiful space to work in. I think it's beyond just the production of the food. It's good for the soul. Our farmers say the same thing that they have friends and family that volunteer to come down and help on planting days or harvest days, especially in the wintertime because both working with the plants, the beautiful lighting that is our proprietary lights that are just a lovely daylight spectrum. It's just a great place to work. You throw a little music on in January and there is no happier place to be than in one of our growing spaces.

JOE
And what's really cool to me is that you're reconnecting people with growing through innovation. A lot of people unfortunately have lost that connection with agriculture, with farm life. You're providing them that experience in a very natural way, but through innovation.

KIM
We've had really good reception from the existing farming community because our agri-tunnel is able to be deployed in about a thousand square foot space. Most farms have that existing space on their land someplace, giving them 52 weeks of the year opportunity not being at the mercy of the climate. The farmers that often are out there looking too much rain, not enough rain, too much sun, not enough sun. That's all out of the equation. And the other element that we think has been a really interesting perspective is that there are folks that would like to stay within the farming. There's succession planning that's happening within farms, but the younger generation is looking for ways to combine technology, farm smarter. They maybe don't want to be outside in that 35 to 37 degree temperature baling hay, but the idea of using technology in a controlled atmosphere like that, especially when we add some of the more advanced technology opportunities into the unit, that really appeals to them. So we see that there's been a lot of interest from that young farmer, but the established mature farmer is also interested because they've lived through the challenges of climate change and they're looking for something that's more climate resilient. So we're really excited about the interest that's been expressed from the farming community. And I think that's going to be an interesting area. Again, our focus is local farmers feeding local communities.

JOE
So let's dig into that.

KIM
Okay.

JOE
How does this work, no soil?

KIM
Okay. So we start out at the beginning, which is our agri-tunnel. So when we started this company, one of the things we looked at is that there were movable, if I use that word, controlled environment agricultural units being deployed. Some of them were shipping containers. Those are not purpose-built units. They're metal boxes. And what we were seeing is that there were challenges that were being faced that these units aren't insulated to the level or don't have the elements that are needed to handle the tough climates. In Canada and around the world, climate change is happening. So we're seeing extreme heat, extreme cold. And so we look to say, you've got to start with the building. The building itself has got to be able to handle what Mother Nature throws at it. So our unit is a fiber reinforced polymer unit. So think really thick fiberglass. It's modular. So it goes together kind of like Lego. And then it is insulated and waterproof sealed. The unit can be built on a concrete pad, can even be ground covered. But we also have a unit that is built onto trailers. So like a double-wide mobile home. And it's brought in on two pieces, connected up, and away you go. What was important to us with that is to make sure that it was insulated to the level that could handle wherever you deploy it. So in southwestern Ontario, probably the bottom half of Canada, we're about 40, R40 insulation value. If we're going farther north, we're increasing the insulation. If we're going to a community anywhere else in the world, we're reaching out to the local building codes and finding out what is the right insulation material and the right insulation level to be able to address the needs of that community. And what's great about the unit is regardless how much insulation you put on the unit, you're not losing growing space. And that's often in the challenge when you're repurposing something else. You're having to build on the inside and you lose growing space. So once we created that climate resilient building, then we started putting the vertical aeroponic grow walls inside of it, maximizing the yield. We're actually in each of the cups in the wall using coca coir, which is a biodegradable substance. We're using peat cups, which again are biodegradable, so everything that we're using, all of our bio waste inside of the agri-tunnel, is going into an anaerobic biodigester. So we're turning that back into liquid nutrient and CO2 production in the agri-tunnel to be able to feed the plants the CO2 that they want. So we're trying to ensure that we're thinking about each one of the systems in the unit so that it can be as efficient as possible. The energy footprint of these units has been what's really been exciting. We knew from our calculations based on the modeling as to what the energy efficiency would be in the units. But our pilot project with Western University, we've been proving out all of that energy modeling and there's been a number of white papers that they have published sharing the energy modeling with the unit and it actually exceeded what we were expecting. It beat our pre-calculations because of some other elements that were happening in the unit, but it's been really great to see that how energy efficient the unit is and that all of the technology we're using is focused on bringing the energy consumption as low as possible. We bring it down as little energy as possible because the next piece of the equation is so where are we getting the energy? And we've partnered with the production of agrivoltaics. So agrivoltaics is the partnering of solar panels with agriculture. So we often hear people say, oh, we don't want to put solar panels on good agricultural land. Absolutely, totally agree, unless you farm that land as well. So make it instead of an either or do both. So with the agrivoltaics, we're able to capture the power of the sun to power the agri-tunnel, but we're still farming underneath it. So we've been doing research with strawberries growing underneath the solar panels and we were noticing almost double the yields. And so the size, the speed of plant, everything about the plant was bigger and better. There's been great success with what's called solar grazing, which is placing animals under the solar panels. They love the shade. The grass grows better. The droppings from the animals are fertilizing the soil and regenerating the soil. Sheep is the one that's had the greatest success, but you can also do chickens, pigs. Cattle, yes, but the solar racking has to be designed to be able to handle the rub on the solar racking. So you've got to make sure you're putting something in there that can handle cows rubbing out at a little bit. Goats is a hard pass. Goats will eat anything, so they'll eat the wiring generally.

JOE
No solar grazing.

KIM
No solar grazing for the goats. They just eat the solar panels and the wiring. But when you look at that opportunity to say, layering, to be able to do animals and plants and solar and the agri-tunnel and put it all together in an energy efficient way, it helps to take out that variable in some communities to say, can we grow locally? And we've got heat challenges, droughts, all kinds of different things that we're dealing with. And when you stop and think about the challenges ahead of time and how can we address them? That's what we look to do is to have all the tools in our toolbox to address whatever challenge you may have in your location. We've got a couple of communities we're dealing with right now. That's one of the first questions when we're dealing with location. Tell me about where you are. What's happening? So what are the challenges? What are the opportunities? What are we wanting to grow all these things? When you look at challenges, I had somebody the other day, I'm like, man, you just really are throwing it at us. They have straight line wind speed from hurricanes, flooding, hurricanes. Then there's loss of infrastructure after hurricane as well. So it can be up to three months before they get their power back. And then they had the conversation, they're saying, oh, and by the way, we get earthquakes. Like, sure.

JOE
And locusts?

KIM
Okay, let's just say, what else can we throw it up? Like, okay, let's just start throwing things on here. What's exciting is that a lot of these things we've already addressed, the structure is able to handle most of these things. No structure is 100% earthquake or hurricane resilient. But we're getting to the point where they can handle pretty much anything that is thrown at it. They're very resilient. And then when we look at some of these unique challenges, we know who to reach out to. There are experts all over the world already dealing with these things. And we look at ourselves almost a bit like a quarterback when it comes to those things. We're pulling teams together. And I think for me, that's been one of the most exciting things that we're looking at doing these days, is really digging into some of the big challenges that communities are facing around the world.

JOE
So, I see it as a grand scale, which is wonderful, because it's what we need. But is there implementation to the scale? So with somebody wanting to go in on- like, to start, can they build up what they're doing?

KIM
Yeah, great question. I get that a lot because people ask about the different levels of, and again, they always talk about the money. It's like, how much does it cost to get involved? Our company is really focused on the commercial level. So however, the technology we have goes right back to a home-based unit. So I like to tell people that we have everything from a home-based unit to a large commercial production facility. We could probably do something from a couple of thousand dollars to a couple million dollars. Where do you need to be in that space? And again, that's part of that initial conversation that we have with a potential client to say, tell me about what your goals are. We've got lots of solutions. I like to say, I have a great big toolbox with all kinds of different tools in it. Tell me about you. Tell me about what you're looking to do. We haven't focused on the home-based units as much, and it's simply been our corporate decision because we are looking for the biggest impact in communities. And while the companies that we work with that supply the technology absolutely have home-based units available, and we can absolutely make them available for somebody if they're interested. For us, the idea of supporting a commercial farmer and helping them be successful and feed larger numbers of people, when we look at bandwidth, that's where our focus has been. Another thing that I think has really helped us decide on that direction was we all saw during COVID how many people planted gardens in their backyards, right? And some of them continued on, which is wonderful. Not everybody is meant to be a farmer, and that's okay. It's also looking at not everybody has the space, not everybody has the time. And we like to think if you're not a farmer, that's okay, support a farmer. So that's why we kind of focus on the farmers at this time and are really looking at that commercial scale. Scalability really is dependent on the area that you're and the size of the population that you're looking to support. We always try to encourage people to look geographically from a carbon footprint standpoint. You don't want to be trucking things, you know, a thousand kilometers away. So what is your immediate area? Where is the reasonable area for you to be supporting with your food production? And so again, for us, one of the biggest guiding principles as we're going through everything that we do is location, location, location. It really does govern everything about your operation from your access to labor, your operating costs, your consumer base, electrical costs, your water. That's a massive issue as well that, you know, we don't think of it in some areas because we have such convenient, easy access to water, but around the world, that's not always the situation. So understanding the access to water is very important. So yeah, but we get back to location, location, location.

HOLLY
That's it.

JOE
And speaking of that, so when we look at local food, we're talking about healthy, nutritious food. And you're talking about local food, using a different method, an innovative method. Do the units, is there an impact to the healthiness or the nutritiousness of the food that you grow?

KIM
I would say there is. The research that we've done that while we, there's always that conversation about, you know, the nutrients that are being fed to the plants because in our growing system, we are adding nutrients. So we're feeding the plants as well too. It allows us to really control and monitor with the plants that they're getting everything that they need to be happy and healthy. Now, there's always the conversation about outdoor and different growing methods outside and balancing that off. I think that is a very complex conversation because there are so many factors involved. So to say, are the plants that are grown in the agri-tunnel more nutritionally balanced and healthier than something that has been on the back of a truck for 10 days, grown in a field that maybe is adjacent to a farm that's spreading manure on their fields. And there's been so many recalls recently of romaine lettuce. That is, you know, and I was just actually speaking recently at a conference about this and understanding why is that happening. And the interesting thing about this is that 90% of romaine lettuce is grown in two areas, one in California, one in Arizona. And it's exported around the world. Everybody's receiving this from California and Arizona. The interesting thing about these farms is they are right adjacent to some massive feeder lot cattle farms. So what's happening is the water is getting contaminated with the feces. It's being spread both through the water table itself as well as sprayed on the plants during the watering process. Romaine in particular has a very crinkly leaf. So that bacteria is actually attached into the plant in a way that it's difficult, if not impossible, to wash it off or cook it off. And then it's being shipped all over the world. And of course, then you've got E. coli outbreaks. And that's a challenge that when we look at it to say, what are the nutritional benefits and which ones got higher nutrition, I go back to say, which one's healthier. And I think when you look at what we're able to do with no herbicides, no pesticides, no air pollution, no overspray from neighboring crops, and that we're controlling the nutrition that's being provided to the plants to help optimize their growth, in my mind, it's a much healthier product that we can get into the hands of consumers about the same price because we're taking out all the shipping costs. So your local farmer is making more money on the crop because they're not having to knock their price down so low to compensate for the shipping costs and the distribution, which is very expensive as the cost of gas continues to rise.

HOLLY
This may be an obvious question but for viewers that may not know a lot about this, why is it so important for us to be growing here in Canada?

KIM
Yeah, it's a really great question and very timely because every year there's a Canadian food price report that comes out. This year's the 2025 came out recently. They're projecting between 3% and 5% increase again in our food bills. Fresh produce is expected to go up 4% to 6%.

HOLLY
Wow.

KIM
The reason for that is Canada imports between 60% and 80% of its fresh vegetables. So that's a lot of reliance on imports. And as we saw during COVID that whenever that infrastructure, the distribution chain, whenever that is broken, we are vulnerable. So our reliance on those imports, we've got to start working on that to reduce that reliance on someone else's produce. That's not going to be easy to do necessarily here in some areas in Canada because, climate. You know, we've got snow half of the year in some areas, sometimes longer in some other areas. Understanding too some areas are getting hit in the summertime with massive heat issues, which can be very tough on some of the more delicate crops. So we have to get smarter. How do we bring some of those crops home, like the strawberries that we've been working on through the Homegrown Innovation Challenge, or 85% of Canada's strawberries are imported.

HOLLY
Wow.

KIM
That shocked me when I heard that.

JOE
Absolutely.

HOLLY
Yeah, it shocks me too.

KIM
We're all used to seeing strawberry farms around the areas where we are. But when you look at the seasonality of it, it makes sense. So if we can even just take a chunk of that out of the equation and produce more strawberries locally all year round by using controlled environment agriculture, that will be, you know, that will make a big change in that import.

HOLLY
I love your approach of just finding out what everyone kind of needs in the area and then going for that as well. I also agree strawberries are just like, everybody's just dying for them, I think all year round. And that's like one of the, yeah, one of the main things I think every Canadian is buying constantly. So I think, yeah, that target is incredible. Yeah.

KIM
I think that the other element with the strawberries and one of the reason the Homegrown Innovation Challenge grant started was it's also a very delicate crop. It doesn't ship particularly well. They also know that at the grocery stores, the consumer is not having necessarily a great experience with some of that imported produce because I don't know about you, but there's been times I've bought those, you know, clamshells of berries and they go moldy within two days.

HOLLY
Oh, yeah.

KIM
Right? So we can do better. 

JOE
Yes.

HOLLY
Yeah.

KIM
We have the technology. Why not? So that's what we're working on specifically. But I think, you know, that also extends to other crops to go back to the community and to understand their need. We're focused extensively right now on can we grow it? So we're trying all kinds of crazy experiments. You know, I was talking about the root vegetables, but we're also doing things like peas and beans, quinoa, amaranth. You know, we're just trying everything to say, can we grow it? The other half of the equation, though, is should we grow it? That to grow potatoes in southwestern Ontario is not necessarily the best crop to grow from a profitability standpoint because they're readily available, they're inexpensive and they store well. So not maybe the crop that I'm going to choose if I'm looking to be profitable with my unit. If I'm in the far north, we had looked at some research from some of the northern stores in northern Canada and five potatoes was $25.

HOLLY
Oh, my gosh. 

JOE
Wow.

KIM
That's a game changer to say there is a crop that if we can address that because it doesn't ship in well, it's expensive to fly them in. If we can look at ways to be able to produce that locally, that makes a difference for that community. So again, it really comes down to that, can we and should we? Each community is different. So to ask them what they would like to have and then how does that look within their community needs and profitability for the farmer.

HOLLY
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being we should probably pay attention and 10 being it's a full-blown crisis, how big of an issue is food security in North America, do you think?

KIM
Wow, that is a very big question because you're asking someone who would say 10. I don't like to be a doomsdayer. My husband is an emergency manager, so we work in this space a lot. I also am on the board of a number of food banks and meal programs and very involved with food insecurity. So I'm very aware of some of the folks that are in the most insecure positions. So for me, it's something I'm constantly aware of every single day. Understanding that I think the average person would say that we're maybe at a 6 or a 7. My personal belief is it's much higher than that. The reason I also look at that is that I see the climate change impacts that are coming. There are many communities that, yes, maybe they're down around a 6 or a 7. They're somewhat comfortable. They get a little bit uncomfortable with the prices at the grocery store, but they're still able to access that food. They're still able to, while it's taking a bigger chunk out of their budget, which hurts, they're still able to make food choices. There are countries around the world where you can go to the grocery store. It doesn't matter if you have, you know, hundreds of dollars in your pocket. The food is not there. That's concerning. And understanding that is going to get worse. The projections in some of the areas of the world, the MENA district, Middle East, Northern Africa, the temperature changes that are coming because of climate change are projecting massive crop failures, massive crop failures. And understanding that that is, has that potential impact around the world, we have to be aware of it. As I say, here in Canada, often many communities are uncomfortable, but not in pain yet. We have to be aware that that is a place of privilege. It is not the reality around the world. And I think what's really exciting, there was a fantastic report that came out of Arrell Food Institute back in September of 24, that really looked at Canada's role in food security and food production around the world. And it was very exciting using, the report was on Canadian technology feeding the world. What I loved about this report is that there were really actionable items in it that spoke to what Canada can do in the way of technology development and what different sectors here in Canada, what their role was in being able to bring this forward. So there were calls to action for academia, there were calls to action for industry, for business leaders, for financers, for the government. Each different area had, here's what you need to do to help move Canadian agri-technology forward so we can help feed the world. To me, that was very exciting because I believe Canada is well positioned to be able to bring our technology around the world. We have leading academic institutions, we have great skilled labour pools, we have government finance, we have all of the elements to really make a difference and to help with ag tech around the world. And so for me, that report was really exciting and very well read.

HOLLY
There's another problem facing the planet and that's climate change. What's the link between climate and our climate change and our global food systems?

KIM
Yeah, I think when you look at climate change and our global food systems, one of the biggest impacts obviously is severe weather. So I'll use the example this, in the last year, we've had some very significant hurricanes. And some of the locations that were hit in particular Jamaica is one of the countries we've been talking to some of their leadership there about deploying agri-tunnels to help with food stabilization in that country. The reason is when that hurricane hit, they lost 85 % of their crops. That's massive. And when you're looking at outdoor crops, there's the seasonality, as we all know, to planting seeds, growing the crop and getting the harvest. If you've missed that window for planting and growing and harvesting and you're off season, you may have to wait a whole other season before you can plant crops. With the controlled environment agriculture, we can plant crops every single day, every single week. If things get interrupted for some unknown reason, we plant another cycle of crops and off we go again. Our goal as a company has always been to be able to deploy an agri-tunnel within 90 days of receiving the project; we would have the unit on the ground and the first crops being planted. And based on some of the faster growing crops, you can have your first harvest coming off within 30 days after that.

HOLLY
Wow.

KIM
So understanding that there is a nimbleness, a responsiveness that we can have with that. But I think when we look at global climate change, being able to understand that there are many challenges going to be thrown at us. Climate change isn't just extreme heat, but that can be one of the most damaging. The energy consumption that goes with that, because if we are heating and cooling to be able to combat that, that energy draw can be quite significant and making sure that our systems are able to respond to that need as well too. But I think severe weather, we're seeing it everywhere. We've had some of the massive thunderstorms, hurricanes, tornadoes, hail, flooding, all of these different things. What excites me, because I've had people ask me like, don't get depressed when you hear about all this stuff coming. The food insecurity, all of this stuff and the weather. And I think the answer, I have to give the answer, no, I don't. And the reason is, is I know we've got really smart people all over the world working on this. We can do this. We have the technology. We know what we need to do. And we're just getting things organized. We're doing it. We're making it happen. We're innovating. We're working together. We're collaborating. It's going to be, I don't want to make light of it. It's going to be tough. It's going to be work. It's going to be hard work.

HOLLY
Big transition.

KIM
Big transition in how we do things, how we consume food. I think the average person is going to have to make an effort with this because how we buy our food, how we consume food, we have to be more thoughtful about it. Supporting your local farmers, supporting your local farm market, includ- encouraging your grocery stores to engage with their local farmers. We in here in Canada have seen a really good engagement with local farmers. Not all countries around the world have seen that. We were really excited to hear recently one of our collaborators that we work with in Cameroon was using similar technology. They were using the biodigester technology that we use to grow crops, regenerate the soil. They were doing great things, but they couldn't get their produce into the grocery store because the grocery stores said, no, we have these contracts. Importing, that's inconvenient to do it locally. They just broke through that barrier a couple of months back and they finally have local produce in the local grocery store. So the change is happening. It takes some pushing, it takes some perseverance, and I think when we look at the consumer voting with their shopping dollar, it will happen faster. I think that's the role the consumer has to play in this conversation to be able to say, I want a more resilient food supply chain. I want to support local farmers. So find the sources locally to be able to do that and push for that change.

HOLLY
And your lettuces or produce compared to the prices in the grocery store, is it similar or is it different?

KIM
Yeah, the commercial farms that we have locally that are supplying into the retail chain, they're going in at comparable prices. Could they charge more as a premium product because their products are almost, they're beyond organic. Because they're not grown in soil, they can't certify as organic under the Organic Certification Board. But their practices and how they grow is beyond organic. The prices they're charging, though, they have chosen to match local prices.

HOLLY
Wow.

KIM
And the reason is they believe that everyone should have access to this fresh, nutritious food, as opposed to it being an elite product. What I think is really exciting about that, though, is that often when you're buying produce that's been imported from long distance, there's a lot of waste, especially if romaine lettuce, you're often removing those outside leaves, you're cutting off the bottom, you're getting rid of that core that's often not the most labourful. By the time you're done, I actually had a chef tell me the other day, he said they estimate about one third of a head of romaine goes directly into the compost or biodigester pile.

HOLLY
Right.

KIM
So when we look at our romaine that's grown locally by our grower, that's zero waste. It's on the shelf at the local store within hours of harvest and it has a fresh life of anywhere from three, often four weeks that it stays fresh and you're not throwing any of it out. So while it's still the same price per kilogram, your waste is zero, if minimal along the way. So I like the fact that they've really approached it from the perspective that they want everybody to have access to this.

HOLLY
Yeah, I think that was the biggest worry too is the financial cost, like how much is it going to cost for us to change over to organic and be more food conscious. Like I think people really do worry about the money and I think food poverty is, yeah, I don't know.

KIM
It's a huge issue. And I will share, if I may share a story.

JOE
Yes, please.

KIM
For me having worked with the food bank for many, many years and currently on the board of a local food bank as well, I've always had in my mind as I do the work that I do, a parent and I connect with the female. So, you know, it's often the mom. So the mom or the dad who are going to bed at night in tears wondering why they can't feed their children, why they can't buy the produce they want because they have to make selections based on how far can I stretch my dollar and choosing the products that they would prefer to choose, being able to expose their children to the wonderful world of fresh vegetables. But, you know, they can't. And I keep that person in my mind as I'm doing this work thinking they're counting on me. They're counting on me to get this right, to get the work done, to be time sensitive, to make sure that we're not delaying too long because every night they're waiting and they're counting on me. I received an email. So we shared some news a while back and it was about one of our growers and the great crops that they're doing. It was just, you know, typical social media post. I received a private message in response and it was from a woman who had shared that she had used the food bank for the very first time and she'd had to use it twice within the few months prior to that. She said, I literally go to bed at tears wishing that I could expose my daughters to the wonderful world of fresh vegetables and fruits. And there she says, I don't even go down those aisles because I know I can't afford them. She said, I am, and she was so appreciative of the work we were doing and she said, please keep up the good work. We're counting on you. 

JOE
Nice.

HOLLY
Lovely. Oh my gosh.

KIM
And, you know, I had this abstract in my mind of this person and all of a sudden she was real. Had a name. And so to me, that's what motivates me and what we do that I know there are a lot of people out there that wish they could access this produce. So for us, keeping the cost down, producing locally at a comparable price is the first goal. Producing local at less price is the second goal. And that's where we're hoping to go. I'm hoping as we see going into this next year as we're seeing four to six percent increase in produce that's being imported, our local vendors we're hoping can maintain their price without it costing them, without them taking a financial hit. Can they do a two percent increase? Cost of living. You know, I'm hoping that that's what we're going to be able to see because they are not going to be subject to the fluctuations of international imports. So we'll see how that rolls out in the next year.

HOLLY
A lot of changes.

JOE
You're growing hope.

KIM
We're growing hope! That's my goal. Grow the hope.

HOLLY
Food Security Structures Canada also takes the rights of Indigenous peoples and truth and reconciliation very, very seriously. Why is this?

KIM
I have Indigenous heritage. I word it that way very carefully because I was not raised in an Indigenous context. I know who my grandmothers were. So I acknowledge my heritage. My family is from up around James Bay, Moose Factory, Moosonee. My great-great-great-grandmother was Cree and my great-great-grandfather was from the Orkney Isles. We were able to trace our family history as I say, it's a family connection that I honor but I don't claim to have been raised within community. What that has meant though is that as an adult it's a journey that I have explored myself. I have taken the time and made the commitment to understand our family's legacy and to understand our story within the Canadian story. Our family was associated with the Hudson Bay Company. I've traveled all across Canada. We've got some really great stories along the way but it's important for me to have understood that reality of what my grandmothers in particular because again I connect with the feminine and understanding what they did and how they lived and what their lives looked like and then understanding our relatives in the communities all over where they are currently living and what is their reality and their experience as Indigenous heritage and particularly the members of our family who are living in Indigenous context in Indigenous communities and we've done some work. I had done some work in Northern communities and really experienced in a very brief context but in a very real way some of the challenges that are being faced in these remote communities and that's part of why we do the work that we do. I think every Canadian should have to go to a Northern community for a period of time to see the beauty and to understand why people in these communities feel such a close tie to these communities. These are their homes. They are in beautiful, beautiful places and the connection and the family love and support within these communities is very, very close and to understand that we need to support and encourage that and that there's opportunities for us to do that. So for us when we're working in an Indigenous context it's really important to make sure that we are working in a culturally sensitive way that we have the proper training so our team has training before they go into community but the first thing we start with is part of the UNDRIP promise that we make the United Nations and our own commitment to consultation. We don't go in to fix people. We don't go in and tell them they have to eat kale. We go in and open up dialog. We start with hearing and listening and I think that's part of what's important to me is to understand whether it be here in Canada or anywhere around the world. We need to stop and listen and truly understand before we start bringing forward suggestions of solutions and that's really important to us as we go forward to make sure that we're asking before we start talking.

JOE
Let's stick with growing hope. Let's talk about growing up. How do you envision vertical farming in the future? I know that you're probably 10 steps ahead of us.

KIM
Some of the things that we're working on right now we've got a few really innovative projects that are emerging these days. The first one is dealing with the energy piece of the farming. Vertical farming, indoor farming, controlled environment agriculture obviously has an electrical footprint. We talked briefly about solar which is a great option but not all communities have enough sun exposure to be able to make solar effective. We're really excited that we've just developed a relationship with a company out of New York City, Nano Nuclear Energy. They do micro-reactors. They say I'm just learning this whole world of nuclear. I'm a farmer person in my background, right? So this is a really exciting opportunity but these micro-reactors are small enough to deploy into individual communities. Their focus is remote communities, climate-challenged communities, industrial context as well. What we can do is partner them with the agri-tunnel to address the energy piece that is the agri-tunnel as well as powering the whole community. There's a really exciting opportunity there. We're just in the process of launching that pilot project so that energy piece is one. To be able to come into a community, to be able to provide food, energy, and I'm hoping we can bring clean water solutions as well. That's the other piece, as you say, what's in the future. Being able to bring all of those tools in our toolbox to really understand what does community need and have the partners that are best in class all ready to go. That's going to be a really exciting piece of the puzzle as we're moving forward. One of the hot buttons for me is reducing the cost of our units. People look at me like, you want to make less money? Yes, that is what we're looking to do. Everything that we're doing, and I know my technology team constantly gives me the side eye because it's like, great, I love what you've developed. Now make it cheaper without compromising quality because I want to be able to get into more communities with less capital cost. To be able to constantly be driving the cost down. Whenever I'm talking to a supplier and establishing a new relationship, I always somewhat apologize at the beginning of the conversation. I say, I need you to understand, I am going to beat you up on price. That's part of what I'm going to do. Please don't take it personally. I am speaking for those folks out there that are food insecure and they need me to be their voice and their champion to bring the cost as low as possible. I said, so don't take it personally, but I am always going to be driving you down on price. That's what I look to do with every relationship that we have. Can we do it less expensively without compromising quality? When you look at where are we going in the future, I'm really focused on Earth, but what's been really interesting is the amount of interest there is with growing food in space. We keep getting pulled in on projects that are so exciting. My partner's been down to NASA talking to them about some of their projects. There was a recent call that was talking about controlled environment ag in space and we were actually invited to be part of that. There's some really interesting things happening. That's exciting. That's cool.

HOLLY
What do you think about growi ng in space? What do you think about your systems up there?

KIM
Yeah, so when we look at our systems in space and that's why we're getting the questions is that our systems have truly addressed some of the biggest challenges of growing in space. For me, feeding people here on Earth is my number one priority. However, the technology development to be able to grow plants in space translates to be able to grow more food here on Earth as well. So there is a synergy. It's not one, either, or it's both. They're both going in the same direction. So if I can be more efficient with water, if I can be more efficient with energy, if I can grow more food, more different crops, more volume, that's going to translate to more production here on Earth as well, too. So as long as the two stay in lockstep, I'm there. But it's hard not to get excited when you start getting those type of calls and having those kinds of conversations. But it's always got to go back to the initial... I have it written right on my wall above my desk as we all have our inspiration boards, but does it feed people?

HOLLY
That's right.

KIM
And that's the goal is, but does it feed people and is it going to help us feed more people as we move forward?

JOE
So we've talked about food security across the universe now.

KIM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've gone from local farmers feeding local communities to local farmers on Mars feeding local communities on Mars. That's exactly it. We've covered it all.

JOE
And we have covered a lot, but is there anything that we haven't touched on yet that you'd like to talk about, Kim?

KIM
I think one of the interesting things about our growing systems that has emerged as we've been developing over the years is its accessibility. We often thought traditional farming has always had such a physicality to it that it could be excluding some people who would love to be farmers, but I don't have the physical strength to be baling hay or working with cattle or doing some of these things that can be very physically demanding. What's great about controlled environment agriculture is that our systems have been developed that anybody can do it. Now, I couch that in saying it is still work. It is hard work some days. Our farmers on a harvest day, by the end of the day, they're tired. That's a lot of work. But it's not to the physically demanding level that the average person who's in half-decent shape, they can handle that. We've got farmers that are in their 20s and we've got farmers that are in their 70s. So understanding, and I think what's really interesting is that it's actually more female dominated in the sector. It's becoming that way with our farms. They're more female led businesses, which is exciting. We see a lot of family interest in this because it provides such a great quality of life to be able to be at home with your children, growing a business, growing crops, exposing your children to that wonderful lifestyle from a young age. One of my farmers commutes to his farm from his house to his growing structure on a scooter. Like, I mean, like not even a gas, not even electric scooter, just a regular scooter.

JOE
Like a scooter scooter.

KIM
Right, yeah, it's great. It's commute is 30 seconds from the house to the... The quality of life is tremendous. So to look at that accessibility, our walls are modular. So they could even be custom designed to be able to support someone who is wheelchair-bound, mobility challenged. There's just so many opportunities with this to be able to allow someone who's maybe always wanted to be a farmer, but was being held back by something. We may be able to address that. We may be able to help them fulfill that dream of being a farmer and again, growing food to feed their communities. And that's, I think that's exciting to be able to empower someone that way. Getting into traditional land-based farming, that's a lot of money. That's our systems at a commercial level, about the cost of a John Deere tractor. Right, but to understand that you're not having to buy millions of dollars of land, millions of dollars of equipment, millions of dollars of seeds and inputs and fertilizers and all of those things and then cross your fingers that mother nature doesn't destroy at all. I think that's appealing to people and being able to deploy our units in an urban setting, rural setting, remote, any location, we're hoping that that opens up the doors to more people who in their hearts are farmers and are just looking for the tech to help them out.

JOE
Accessible farming.

KIM
Accessible farming.

JOE
Incredible.

HOLLY
Well, if you've heard of our show, you know we have one final question for every guest. What keeps you growing?

KIM
My passion for feeding people, I think is what it is at the end of the day. I was so blessed to have moms and grandmas that taught me how to preserve food, prepare food, feed my family. My grandfather, my dad, they were farmers. My dad was a lawyer, but we were on the farm all the time anyhow. But I watched them and I honor that background because it has inspired me to do what I'm doing. I want to bring the gifts that were given to me to people in Canada and around the world and to be able to help people raise their families, feed their families and just be their best versions of themselves by powering them up with the good stuff. And that's what gets me through every day is knowing that there are people out there that are counting on me to get this right and get it out there to be able to help them because they're waiting. And when your stomach is empty and you're hungry, you don't want to wait. So I am a bit of a- I push, I push hard. I will tell you, people will tell you that when I've got something we're doing, we're setting meetings, we're moving, we're moving at a fast pace because people are counting on us. And that's what keeps me going every single day. 

HOLLY
Incredible.

KIM
I'm hoping. I'm trying. And if I don't, I have the team and the people out there that we reach out to just say it to help. This isn't about me. This is about pulling together teams of people who are rock stars in the areas that they work in. And we are pulling together all-star teams to tackle the biggest challenges in the world. I heard a quote the other day that just stuck with me. Big dreams need big teams.

JOE
That's right.

KIM
And that's what this is. This is a big challenge, a big dream. And we're putting together big teams to solve it.

JOE
Love it. Speaking of this team and this wonderful organization, where can people find out more about Food Security Structures Canada?

KIM
We have a website, foodsecuritystructures.ca. We're on social medias. We do Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. So please connect with us. We try and share out news as frequently as we can, both about the things that we're doing, but more so about our farmers. Because I want people to see the potential and maybe see themselves in one of those stories. The other thing is I hope to encourage more people to support their local farmers, whether it be farmers that are growing with our systems or local farmers anywhere. Support your local farmers because they're the people you're going to be relying on if that long distance food supply chain becomes broken. So get to know your local farmer and support them.

HOLLY
Wonderful. Kim, thank you so much for joining us today.

KIM
I appreciate this. I appreciate you guys sharing the message. And it's been so much fun.

JOE
Thank you. That's so great.

ADAM
If you like this show, please like and subscribe on YouTube and rate and review us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're preparing a bunch of special extras for our fresh and nutritious newsletter subscribers. Sign up for free at GrowAbilityPod.com. GrowAbility is hosted by Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley. Special thanks to this week's guest, Kim Parker. Our show is produced by Adam Caplan, Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley. Production support from Oliver Gansevles, Evan Gansevles, Scott Hohn, Kevin Labonte, Paul Rodgers, Doruntina Uka and Alan Williamson. Holly Pugsley of Just Keep Growing art directed this episode and made sure the plants looked great. Audience strategy by Doruntina Uka and Tess Alcock. Our theme music is Wandering William by Adrienne Walther and can be found on Soundstripe. Adam Caplan, that's me, is web.isod.es Executive Producer and Sammy Orlowski is our Senior Creator. Thanks to TechAlliance of Southwestern Ontario, including Farida Abdelnabi and Sarah Edmondson for letting us shoot at their beautiful offices. Special thanks to Leigh Ann Gansevles for the support and yummy food, Hubert Orlowski for helping our podcast sound great and Gabor Sass for making some great introductions. GrowAbility is a web.isod.es Production and is produced with the support and participation of the team at The PATCH and Hutton House.