Holly Pugsley Just Keeps Growing

Video

Audio

Episode Synopsis

The tables turn!

GrowAbility Co-host Joe flips the script and interviews his colleague Holly Pugsley. Holly shares her journey from a background in fashion and styling to discovering her passion for urban agriculture during COVID-19, which became a sanctuary for her mental health. She explains how her home grow room project evolved into her company "Just Keep Growing."

While initially focusing on microgreens, Holly describes her pivotal discovery of edible flowers, which transformed her approach by adding an aesthetic dimension to her work. She details how growing pansies indoors created a visually stunning experience with multicolored blooms and amazing aromas, connecting her background in fashion with food production. Holly discusses her work overseeing indoor farms at The PATCH, an organization addressing food insecurity, and how their accessible growing systems benefit people with disabilities.

Throughout the conversation, Holly returns to her personal mantra "just keep growing," which represents both her business philosophy and her approach to life's challenges. The episode highlights Holly's mission to create an "ecosystem of positivity" through urban agriculture, edible flowers, and community support, while changing perspectives on food insecurity.

It's a not-to-be-missed opportunity to get to know both our hosts in a whole new way!

Mentioned Links

• Just Keep Growing (Instagram)
• The PATCH London

Transcript

JOE:
Holly, we're almost at the end of our first season. How does it feel?

HOLLY:
It feels good, Joe. It's been quite a journey.

JOE:
And we're just getting started. But remember when we began the season?

HOLLY:
Our producer Adam turned the tables and made you the surprise interview guest.

JOE:
He did indeed. And while we have one more short episode to cap off this season, I thought this would be a good time to spring the same thing on you.

HOLLY:
Oh, okay. But my mother Janice is definitely listening to this, so let's just keep it profesh, okay?

JOE:
Absolutely. From Webisodes, this is the penultimate episode of GrowAbility's first season.

HOLLY:
GrowAbility is a podcast at the intersection of urban agriculture, food security, and community.

JOE:
Today I'm talking to Holly Pugsley who, in addition to her hosting duties on this show, also oversees all of the indoor farms at The PATCH and runs her own indoor farming company, Just Keep Growing. Holly, you've grown a lot and you just keep growing. But who is Holly Pugsley?

HOLLY:
That is a loaded, loaded question. Holly Pugsley. I am a developing woman, so honestly I have no concrete answer for that now. But yes, I am a developing person. I got into urban agriculture as my saving grace, but that was not where I really started. So my definition of myself has definitely changed over time as life has happened, I would say. Post-urban agriculture Holly was into fashion, and I was living in Newmarket, Ontario. And yeah, I came to London hoping to start in the fashion industry and ended up getting really involved in styling and started working in a few different off-jobs. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do, but I worked at a flower shop right after I came to London and started kind of getting into more fashion, but I changed to plants after retail. I really didn't love retail and that entire energy there. Being in that environment, I was looking for something that I could kind of calmly do, especially after COVID, that very much affected me and my journey and change of pace, I would say. I was working like three jobs before the pandemic, and I kind of slowed down and just looked for one job that I could simply just walk to and feel lighter and feel refreshed and learn new things and talk to new people. I was really isolated back then, so this really, really helped me. And when I made that transition, I kind of realized, wow, I need to create a similar space at home. And yeah, that's how Just Keep Growing kind of started because I really needed that tranquil vibe at my house as well as finding it in a workplace. Yeah, surrounded by flowers and plants, it was beautiful. And it was a change of my vision. I didn't really see plants. I didn't see varieties. I didn't see the names of plants and being able to recognize bugs and different shapes of plants and identifying. You kind of have to dive into an entire different world. So I changed my pace a lot after COVID. But yeah, I feel like I definitely rambled a little bit there, but yeah, I'm changing all the time. I don't think I'm going to be very firm on who I am for a little while longer, yeah.

JOE:
But long enough for this interview to be relevant.

HOLLY:
Yes, hopefully, hopefully, yes.

JOE:
So there is so much more to you than just a plant obsession.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
But there is a plant obsession.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
What led to this plant obsession?

HOLLY:
Again, COVID, and I would say my own mental health. I was really checking in with myself for a while during COVID. I was very isolated, didn't really have an environment to go to to kind of escape. I felt it was either just isolated at home, locked up, or I was going to, at that time, a flower shop to spend my time. But that was like the only time I could really breathe. And it really did have an impact because of the environment. Like I walked through the doors in there and you'd get that fresh breeze. And I needed that. I think my mental health really suffered before then. And especially during COVID, there was just, I felt not enough resources to help improve my mental health. So I felt, yeah, I really had to grow something myself. But that's what led me into the plant world, I would say. Just looking for some escape and some saving grace and somewhere to focus my attention. Because I had a lot of energy to give, but didn't know where to give it. But yeah, the plants really do give back, for sure. Quite literally, but yeah.

JOE:
Your perspective to the work that we do at The PATCH and GrowAbility is so unique. And I feel that a lot of this came from your own growing journey. Would you talk a little bit more about that?

HOLLY:
Yeah, so when me and you met, I was already developing my grow room at home. So I developed a grow room just so that I could find some peace. I was growing some basil, some herbs, just so that I could smell some beautiful, beautiful aromas in the morning. But yeah, my involvement with The PATCH and you really came from my need to help the city conquer food insecurity issues. When I met up with you, I didn't realize that there was anybody really doing anything like that. So I didn't think it was something that I could actually get into and use even more of my skills in. I love to help people, but being able to combine my work with plants and helping people has been one of the biggest blessings. I don't think I could have found that anywhere else, which is absolutely amazing. And it's funny, because I did do an urban agriculture course with Ryerson. And when I did that course, I had to research urban agriculture businesses in London. Yours did come up, but I didn't get into it as much, and I wish I did. So I chose a different topic for my project which was just so silly. But yeah, I'm so blessed that I found you guys, thank God, for social media. But yeah, I think my passion for helping people, also teaching people about plants, I was so impacted by learning about plants myself. And I really just love seeing that captured in somebody else's eyes. It's like a whole other world is opening up to them. And there's so many metaphors as well that really do transfer with plants, growing plants, and as well as just living your life and improving your mental health and improving your life. So I think my involvement with The PATCH really does connect with Just Keep Growing, because that's all we're doing is we just have to keep growing. And that's also why I created that name. I was sitting in my grow room. I'm like, I don't know what to do with myself, what do I do with my life? And then I realized, I'm like, just keep growing, just keep growing, just keep growing. And I just kept telling myself that and kept growing, like legitimately planting seeds and having them grow and then selling them. And it was extremely successful. I was very happy. And it was very in flow with my mantras. I was saying to myself, just keep growing, just keep growing. And I try to bring that to The PATCH, because I think everyone can get really stuck on their own mental health and where they are and what's going to happen next. And I think if you just keep growing and focus forward on that thought, you can't go wrong. Anything you do, it will work out, really. That's how I feel about it. That's the philosophy behind that. But yeah, I think it's important to bring that to the people of The PATCH too, because everybody's so passionate like I am. And learning about how many people are in this community and using these services and benefiting from it directly. Like it's a beautiful thing. And I think it really resonates with our staff and participants, the just keep growing motto. But yeah.

JOE:
We grow together.

HOLLY:
We do. We all grow together.

JOE:
Growing...

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
Both personally and professionally requires balance.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
Where do you find your balance?

HOLLY:
I don't want to say the garden again, but.

JOE:
You can.

HOLLY:
Like, yeah. I think it's a great job for me to have, because when I do get stressed, I use the opportunity to take time for myself and be with the plants. It's a very present experience and a very present job where I have to use a lot of my energy to kind of like stabilize myself, honestly, for the plants and for the people that we work with. I think like me being able to come into a workplace, I loved working by myself at my house all the time, just with Just Keep Growing. But being able to get out, especially after COVID, it was like incredible. Like, I was able to connect with a lot more people and yeah, really share.

JOE:
Disability often intersects with many other social issues, including food security. How do you think we can address the unique challenges that the individuals with disabilities face when accessing nutritious food?

HOLLY:
Well, I think there's a lot to be said about like food literacy. I think there's just not enough time being spent teaching certain people who experience disabilities. I don't think there's enough time being spent actually teaching and breaking down what is nutritious. What does that even mean? And I think there is just a little bit of a divide in education, so that's kind of like where we come in. But yeah, also there's a lot of barriers we've realized with actual like planting. I think with indoor farming, it's extremely progressive in the sense where we can grow out of hydroponic systems and different systems that are wheelchair accessible. So we have our planting beds, which are great. So we have those at both of our locations. But yeah, so our tower gardens even too, like you can just kind of circle around them and they can pick as they please. So I think this has really expanded my mind to accessibility for our amazing participants who are living with disabilities. I think, yeah, it's beautiful. It's an inclusive space that we've created for everyone, which is just, it's like a dream. I didn't realize how accessible we could make things, especially with gardening. I just, yeah, it's really drilled into me how important it is to have everyone with their hands in the dirt no matter what accessibility barriers they're facing.

JOE:
Healthy food should be accessible.

HOLLY:
Yes, 100%, yeah, for all.

JOE:
If I was to say that you have a specialty. If I was to narrow it down to one.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
I would say that it's edible flowers.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
Why flowers?

HOLLY:
So flowers, I was doing microgreens for a little while in my great 10 by 20 trays. And I just picked up some pansy seeds and I was like, how do I grow these indoors? And I really, I just plugged them in just for an experiment. And watching them come up, it turned me onto a completely different visual industry, I would say, with food. So instead of just a food security lens, I was looking at it through an esthetic lens after that. And I think that's what kind of brought me into working with private chefs, but also working with bakers as well and just really amazing professionals who kind of take my products and create with it, which I really love to see. And yeah, just a beautiful visual experience for me, getting up in the middle of the winter, going into my grow room and the entire rack is filled with multicolored blooms. Like it was outstanding. Like I, and the smell, oh my God, with the blooms, I thought microgreens and greens were like it. Oh my God. The blooms, it completely expanded the aroma in the room. So it changed a lot about how I was looking at my grow room. I was kind of like, just greens, just greens. And then I just was like, oh my God, this is incredible. And also easy to grow. Easy to grow, but also it was a challenge like cultivating the flowers in my space. I would say a smaller space for flowers. You kind of have to make sure they're the right height and everything like that. But yeah, it's still a journey that I'm exploring and trying to see what else I can grow indoors. But yeah, edible flowers have been very interesting, mostly esthetically to me. And I think that's kind of like where like my fashion and styling knowledge kind of comes from. I'm like, oh my gosh, look at the composition. Look at the detail, look at the variegation. Like I'm just obsessed with it. So yeah, that's kind of why I love flowers.

JOE:
Is it happiness?

HOLLY:
Very, very. I think I've found happiness in those blooms. Also something really interesting is there's like, I'm just not a super science gal, but I would like to dive more into experimenting with the electromagnetic fields that's coming from the flowers. I think that it is affecting things. And I would like to dive into more of that. And I think I was meant to get on a flower journey for that. There's a lot going on that we can't see. And I think plants have really pushed me into that, which I really, really, really like because I needed something else to focus on. And I knew there was more to this life. So this is kind of like it. It's just all these like secret little worlds that you can kind of look into, the plant world. But yeah.

JOE:
They're patient and great listeners.

HOLLY:
Yes, they are.

JOE:
Okay, growth. Let's go back to growing.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

JOE:
Stick with a theme here. Growing comes with challenges, both personally and professionally. Can you share a pivotal moment where you felt that you were on the right path?

HOLLY:
Oh my gosh, there's been so many, especially this year with all the amazing stuff that we've been going on. But I think like, I think my most pivotal moment was working at, I worked at, I will say, shout out to Daisy Flowers on Richmond.

JOE:
Daisy Flowers.

HOLLY:
That's where I worked for about three years. And I remember standing in the flower shop, just taking orders. And I love taking orders on the phone because everyone gets me to write their cards for them. So I was like organizing bouquets and stuff. Really amazing. But I just remember standing there and just being like, what? Like, I'm just thinking too much. I've got like way too much on my mind. I feel like I need to do something different or more, I was thinking. And I was like, how do I even do that? But that, I remember my last day at Daisy Flowers, I texted, I told them like, I have to dive into my own thing and spend some time by myself at home, just figuring out if I really can do this. Or I'll just go back to retail or something else. But that moment, I was like really trusting myself. And I really felt my gut. And I was like, this is what I need to be doing. Definitely has to do with the plant space, but this isn't it. And I have to go somewhere else. And being able to start it in my home was a prize because I really didn't want to leave my house anyway during COVID. And it was just amazing. And yeah, a whole other world that I was able to create. And I didn't realize I could do it at home. So it really like, yeah, changed my life. And I remember that pivotal moment where I was like, I'm not coming back here because I have some greater work to do and I got to focus on that kind of thing.

JOE:
Okay. Every idea starts big.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
And then the hard work comes.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
Your business, Just Keep Growing, is a big idea.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

JOE:
How do you see it growing?

HOLLY:
Just Keep Growing has become a few different things now. At first it was a message for me, but now it's actually a future for me to continue going and growing.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

HOLLY:
It's really changed my vibration and the energy and what I'm attracting into my life. Just Keep Growing. So speaking on these mantras, I can tell my future will be very different than how it has been. I think I'm about to attract a lot better energy. It's already been proven this year with all the amazing people that I've met. But yeah, I just want to keep growing with The PATCH and with everybody that I've met this year and the last couple of years that have helped me develop my business more and just connected me with the community. I think Just Keep Growing is a community business. I think we will be a business that's helping conquer food insecurity as well as looking into esthetic options for other people. I think it's a very diverse business, but it can be many things. But yeah, I think there's going to be many different avenues branching off of Just Keep Growing, more to do with plant care as well as land development and design. I have been thinking a lot about growing in larger spaces, also outdoors, but large indoor spaces like, yeah, I've just been looking at unconventional spaces to grow and I think that Just Keep Growing will kind of conquer and take over those zones. But we'll see. The future is bright for everyone, I think. Yeah, all of us.

JOE:
You named it the right name.

HOLLY:
Yes, actually, yes, honestly. I was doubtful at first, and then I was like, it's something I say all the time. I just kept saying it to people. I was like, we just got to keep growing like a crazy person, but I'm like, we got to keep growing. But yeah.

JOE:
Okay, you've become part of The PATCH community. Yes. And we work with a diverse group of people. Yeah. Food security is a central theme.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

JOE:
What has been your takeaway from this?

HOLLY:
From like our food security? Honestly, I would say my biggest takeaway is how possible it is to create patches in places.

JOE:
It's a good word.

HOLLY:
Yeah, it's an amazing word, and it works so well with everything we're doing. But I think my biggest takeaway is how easy it is with the right minds to create patches for people to grow and learn and be more sustainable and get their nutrients. I think, yeah, it's more possible and more, it's not out of reach. Like I feel like a lot of people think it's not out of reach. We're working on a lot of the food literacy portions, I would say, and food security by providing the community with our amazing produce. But like, yeah, I didn't realize, I didn't realize what kind of position we are in in society, too. Like how many people really are food insecure, and what does that even mean? I think a lot of people think that food security is like the most desperate individuals in society, but there's like so many students that are suffering with food insecurity. And yeah, just people that you would see on a day-to-day basis and you wouldn't think, oh, that person is struggling with this and this. Like we really provide a safe space for those types of people to come by and get what they need and use our resources. But yeah, wow, it's really such a stigma that like students aren't as like, I don't know, just like food insecure as someone who's maybe like on the street. So like sometimes it is actually very, very close, those two. So I think, yeah, conquering food insecurity is our mission. And yeah, it's opened my eyes to see like how it's actually affecting people.

JOE:
But yeah.

HOLLY:
Okay. Food security.

JOE:
Yeah. When you think about food security and sustainability, what gives you hope for the future?

HOLLY:
Again, I think it's the people that I've been meeting. There's a lot of hopelessness, I think, in the world that kind of gets you down and has gotten me down several times. But I think just being around people every day that have that mission for sustainability, food security, food literacy, we just need to be around more people that care about it. I think it's very overlooked because it's not affecting some people on their day-to-day life. But yeah.

Okay. GrowAbility.

JOE:
Yes. GrowAbility!

HOLLY:
Community is at the heart of GrowAbility.

HOLLY:
Yes, for sure.

JOE:
That's my why. What's your why?

HOLLY:
For GrowAbility? 

JOE:
Yeah.

HOLLY:
To give people like hope and a platform where we can come up with hopeful ideas and progressive ideas together because I think everyone can get very lost in the, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do now? And panic. And we can never lead from fear or panic. And we need to think with solutions. So that's my why for the podcast. And yeah, we've got good things to say. We know good people. I think, yeah, when you have those kinds of intentions, nothing can really go wrong. I think we know a lot of good people.

JOE:
It's a platform for good people.

HOLLY:
Yes, it is.

JOE:
Many people are struggling with food security right now. And we see it in the work that we do. And seeing firsthand people living with food insecurity. How has that affected you?

HOLLY:
It's made me not ever turn a blind eye again. I don't think I can ever not see it the way that you guys have shown me. I don't think I could ever go back. It's desensitizing. I remember when I first came, I was a little bit more nervous, a little bit more reserved with The PATCH. But learning more, I'm like, I can't even, now that I'm used to this environment, used to everyone, it's like I can never look away or look at things in a different way. It's changed my perspective forever, I would say.

JOE:
Hopefully in a good way.

HOLLY:
In the best way. Yes, no. They've taught me how to take care of myself more, but also just take care of each other. The community is incredible. And I've learned so much about everybody else's circumstances. It's really opened my eyes to what actually needs to be done here. And I think me trying to find my mission, I think it is helping people in that way. But yeah, growing together.

JOE:
How do you describe what you do, including the sum of all the parts, Just Keep Growing, The PATCH and GrowAbility?

HOLLY:
Right. Oh my gosh, there's so many.

JOE:
How do you sum that up?

HOLLY:
You can't even sum it up, but I will break it down for you. So The PATCH, I help oversee all the indoor farms. I help with the outdoor farm Cavendish too, but mostly my expertise will be the indoor farm. So we run our volunteer nights every Tuesday from five till seven. And then I'm in the office most of the week as well, working on our microgreens grow. So we have two locations that I'm overseeing. One of them is our NUF location, Nathan's Urban Farm, with about 14 hydroponic towers, aeroponic towers, sorry. And then the other space is our innovation center, we call it, but also our office. And yeah, I've worked on designing a microgreens grow based off of my grow in that space. So yeah, we manage it, me and a couple of our co-op students and volunteers. And we all learn about different growing techniques, how to improve certain things. I think it's an incredible space for learning. Love having a microgreens grow and then just another growing space for mass producing like lettuces we do. But we also at our innovation center have an incredible therapy room. It's called our H.U.T. Room. Yeah, it's absolutely incredible. It's our horticultural urban therapy room. Yeah, so Joe actually made that, created it, designed it, got Western Engineering students to build it. And then I helped edit it and make sure that it was working with plants and we've got it going. And we've had like five rounds with it now, but it was in a beautiful, beautiful room just for that. And we had tropicals hanging from the ceiling. You may even be able to see it on Dundas every time we walk by or drive by, it's like, yes. But yeah, it's a beautiful tranquil space. We've got a nice little lounger in there. And that's a space that a lot of our participants and staff go to relax and find therapy and find tranquil energy. But yeah, I think that's my role with The PATCH. With Just Keep Growing I have my own indoor grow room. So I grow microgreens, lettuces, herbs and edible flowers. So that's in my spare bedroom though, so it's a little bit tight, but it's the same design as the one at the office too. Yeah, and then with GrowAbility, I am co-hosting with you, my fave. And yeah, it's been an incredible, incredible journey connecting all of these different businesses because we're all just, yeah, we all have the exact same minds and we're building towards something awesome. But yeah, I think, yeah. And they all coincide. I think like my Just Keep Growing work goes with The PATCH and then with GrowAbility and we're all just kind of, yeah, working together as a little ecosystem.

JOE:
So that little ecosystem that helps you just keep growing.

HOLLY:
Yes, sir.

JOE:
With your GrowAbility, develop patches.

HOLLY:
Yes, exactly.

JOE:
What's the central theme?

HOLLY:
There we go. That's perfect. I think that should be my new title or bio on our website.

Unidentified Yeah.

HOLLY:
Okay, that's it. Please. Oh man.

JOE:
What's your central theme?

HOLLY:
My central theme with all those topics?

JOE:
All that stuff.

HOLLY:
I don't even know. Just keep growing, man. That's all I've got to say about that one. That's my central theme. I would say all that trickles into everything, single thing that we're doing. Just keep going. Just keep striving. Yeah. All surrounded around a good and better lifestyle. Just a peaceful lifestyle and plants can really do that. But yeah, all these different businesses, yeah. We are totally connected and yeah. Little ecosystem starting here.

JOE:
Little ecosystem.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

JOE:
An ecosystem of positivity.

HOLLY:
Exactly. We'll see what else we grow from this, but yeah.

JOE:
At this moment, what are you most grateful for?

HOLLY:
Our community, I would say. Our community has changed my life. Hutton House, The PATCH, everyone. I've completely seen a different way of living and I owe it to those environments. And being able to really expand my own knowledge in that space, I am so grateful. It's like diving into education without going to school. Actual school. But it is school. I learn and we're trial and erroring many different mediums, many different growing methods. I'm so grateful for that space. I know how rare that is and it's close to my heart for sure.

JOE:
To get to that space, there were setbacks.

HOLLY:
Yes.

JOE:
And there were failures.

HOLLY:
Yes.

It's a long twisty road.

HOLLY:
It was, yes.

JOE:
Were those setbacks, those failures, were they a good thing? When you look at it now?

HOLLY:
Oh, yeah. Definitely. I think everything that I've been through that I feel has, oh no, this is going to set me back, has only been like a redirection in the right way. And sometimes I don't even know it in the moment. So you kind of have to trust the Universe on that one. That is like something I live by, trusting the universe, because that just has kept me going and growing.

JOE:
Speaking of that, what keeps you growing?

HOLLY:
Oh my gosh. What keeps me growing is helping people and finding things out that the general public and society is overlooking. I think that's what keeps me growing. It's just focusing on that, because I think that there's a lot of work to do here, and those are the things that we need to start on.

JOE:
So super hopeful, grateful, excited for the future.

HOLLY:
Yes, sir.

JOE:
Okay.

HOLLY:
Yep. 

JOE:
Good.  Very good. This is good. Ditto!

HOLLY:
Just keep growing, sir. Just keep growing. I feel like I'll say that till I die. No matter what I'm doing too, I feel like just keep growing could become even another sector of planty world business. I am in for the ride, and I am buckled up, and I'm excited. Yes. The Universe has got me.

JOE:
Mm-hmm..

JOE:
How was this?

HOLLY:
And you, okay? Don't worry.

JOE:
You got to be interviewed. Yeah. I got to be interviewed.

HOLLY:
Yeah.

JOE:
I like being interviewed. Did you like being interviewed?

HOLLY:
I love being interviewed. I feel like it reminds me of our chats in the office, but yeah, a little more elevated.

JOE:
Just a little fancier desk.

HOLLY:
A little bit more elevated, yeah.

JOE:
Thank you, Holly.

HOLLY:
You're welcome. Thank you. So nice.

ADAM:
If you're enjoying GrowAbility, please like and subscribe on YouTube and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Better yet, spread the love and tell a friend about us. We're working on a bunch of special extras for our fresh and nutritious newsletter subscribers. Sign up for free at GrowAbilityPod.com. GrowAbility is hosted by Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley. Our show is produced by Adam Caplan, Joe Gansevles, and Holly Pugsley. This episode's extra special production support from Oliver Gansevles and Paul Rodgers. Holly Pugsley of Just Keep Growing art directed this episode and made sure the plants looked great. Thanks to Heeman's for helping us find the perfect greenery. Audience strategy by Dorrentina Ucke and Tess Alcock. Our theme music is Wandering William by Adrian Walther and can be found on Soundstripe. Adam Caplan, that's me, is web.isod.es Executive Producer and Sammy Orlowski is our Senior Creator. GrowAbility is a web.isod.es production and is produced with the support and participation of the team at The PATCH and Hutton House.