Episode 1: Joe Is The Surprise Guest (Audio)

GrowAbility's Host Joe Gansevles sits in the guest's chair on our very first episode. Producer Adam Caplan talks with Joe about the origins of this project and what you, our audience, can expect from GrowAbility.

We want to hear from you. Joe's email is joe@growabilitypod.com or just use our Contact form.

Follow our socials above, and find all our links, including the partner organizations Joe mentioned in his inteview at bio.site/growabilitypod.

Watch for new episodes every Wednesday.

The transcript for this week podcast is below.

Joe:
Have you ever done anything like this before?

Holly:
I have not, no!

Joe:
Excited?

Holly:
I'm very excited. We've got incredible stories to share with everybody.

From web.isod.es, it's the very first episode of GrowAbility, a digital documentary at the intersection of urban agriculture, food security and community. Holly, on the very first episode, I got fired before I even got started.

Holly:
Yep, our producer Adam Caplan, pulled the old switcheroo and took over hosting duties.

Joe:
He did, and then we did a deep dive on why we created all this.

Holly:
No shade, but Adam doesn't seem much like a farmer.

Joe:
No, but he does have a deep passion for community and things like poverty reduction, so it made sense to partner with him for this project.

Holly:
I love our origin story.

Joe:
Me too. But I still feel like we're never going to actually get Adam's hands dirty.

Holly:
That will not stop us from trying, though. But before we get to the interview.

Joe:
If you like this podcast, please tell your friends about us.

Holly:
And please rate and review us. It's the best way to help others find out about us.

Joe:
Follow us. We're GrowAbilityPod at most major platforms.

Holly:
We have links to our socials at bio.site/GrowAbilityPod.

Joe:
And sign up for a free subscription to our Fresh & Nutritious Newsletter at GrowAbilityPod.com for the latest from the GrowAbility crew.

Holly:
We'll put links in the show notes.

Joe:
Speaking of email, send thoughts, ideas, stories and questions for future episodes to Joe at GrowAbilityPod.com.

Holly:
And a huge thanks to Siskinds The Law Firm for letting us record this podcast in their beautiful office.

Joe:
And now we bring you our very first episode, an interview with me and our Mr. Clean Hands producer, Adam.

Adam:
A quick shout out to Siskinds The Law Firm, for hosting GrowAbility here in the Plaza at their gorgeous head office. As a design nerd, this space is a dream, and it's remarkable that they've opened this up to community partners for events, meetings and our crazy idea for a podcast. Huge thank you to Siskind's The Law Firm. I know this was mentioned in the intro, but we chose a different format for this episode. As the Producer of GrowAbility, I wanted to talk to Joe about the podcast, GrowAbility in general, and what you, our audience, can expect from us, so I climbed into the seat Joe normally sits in and here we are. Joe, getting to this point has been a lot.

Joe:
It's been a lot.

Adam:
It feels like we've, you know, we've been we've started a long journey and now we're starting a whole new part of a new, long, long journey. So I wanted to kind of use this opportunity to talk about our shared history and the whole bit. And so let's start with The PATCH,.

Joe:
Okay.

Adam:
It's an acronym, but it's also an idea. Talk me through what The PATCH is.

Joe:
The The PATCH is a patch. It's hopefully a temporary solution until cities, provinces, countries can have a handle on food security for all people. So The PATCH was designed to utilise urban spaces to grow food for people that are food insecure, with a focus on people that are living with disabilities and barriers.

Adam:
And there's an acronym to it.

Joe:
People, agriculture, training, community and hospitality. And those are also the pillars of the project.

Adam:
So it's a function of of your work with Hutton House.

Joe:
It is.

Adam:
How did you kind of come up with this idea, you know, Hutton House - sort of for those who may not know - Hutton House is an organisation that really supports individuals with disabilities, supports the families of individuals with disabilities by offering sort of everything from employment training to just sort of lifestyle improvements and so on. If I'm getting the mission right.

Joe:
That's, that's our stuff. Yeah, absolutely. So my opinion is nobody comes up with a great idea on their own. They're inspired by- their inspired by their community, they're inspired by their friends, their family, their colleagues. I think there's a couple of catalysts in the work of The PATCH. One is that I'm lucky enough to work at an organisation that sees people and their needs through a holistic lens. Hutton House is a place that has a little of something for everybody from, you know, pottery, a gym, employment services, literacy, volunteerism, and of course, some farms. The idea for the farm came from a fellow parent at my children's school. We were talking about what an urban farm could look like and how community and a not for profit organisation could come together to provide a special space for people.

Adam:
And that's just not any sort of parent. Another parent, that is, if I understand, Dr. Gabor Sass, who has- plays an outsized role.

Joe:
That that is Dr. Sass, indeed. You know, and it was funny because we didn't know each other really. Our children were in the same class, but we didn't know each other. We wasn't, you know, we're friendly and say hi. And it was a great sales pitch. What if we joined forces to come up with a space that could be a social space in a neighbourhood where people could grow food and gather? And from my point of view, when I heard the sales pitch, my speciality in the social services world is support employment. So all I thought was, wow, this could be a great space for people to learn some transferable employment skills. A lot of people with disabilities, they come into the workforce and they don't have skills that they've gathered through cooperative education, through previous employment experience. So they're coming out of high school and they're looking to find work, and the resume is a little thin. So I thought what a great way to teach people how to work.

Adam:
Now, you might have thought it was a great way to teach people how to work, but this is kind of a crazy idea. You know, how did you sell it to you? You know, how did you go to your boss? You're like, I want to start a farm. Like, how does it you know, I guess when you put it like that, right? But how did you sell it to your boss? How did you get this through?

Joe:
I got some cool. I got some cool, cool bosses. That helps. You know, we we work- At Hutton House we get to the. Yes. So it. I think that you have to believe in an idea and you have to move past the the glee and the excitement and the, you know, the off the wall-ness that is an idea that sparks and inspires you. And you have to move to quantifying that that it would be good for community. And I don't know that I was totally there when I proposed the idea, but I think that I was moving in that direction and our Executive Director and fellow managers saw that. So they were like, yeah, this could be good. And then something called the Pandemic happened and we had to prove that it would be good.

Adam:
I would imagine doing that when you're in, there's a few things that came out of that that want to kind of go to. And the first thing I want to talk about is that, you know, you're trying to build a farm when everybody's kind of on lockdown. So what was that experience like?

Joe:
You know what the I think the blessing of that experience was, I had nothing to compare it to because I had never built a farm out of pallets in an old storage yard. So I had no gauge of reference. So maybe ignorance was bliss. All of the challenges were new that we that we came across. So, you know, 1- I mentioned pallets. We were supposed to build the farm out of wood that we were supposed to buy from the lumber yard. And that caused us- with the rise in price for wood.

Adam:
Right.

Joe:
We were stuck. So we. We thankfully had a really great partner and have a really great partner in 3M, an organisation based out of London that is worldwide. They gave us 527 pallets because we, you know, we asked for 527 pallets and they were like, well, yeah, for sure. That makes sense. We learned about side amendments, we learned about floodplains. We learned a lot, and the City of London were really gracious with feeling our enthusiasm, but teaching us along the way.

Adam:
What are things that you, I think, discovered and we've talked about previously is that this. You also discovered a lot about the the realities of your constituency when everybody was stuck inside.

Joe:
Right.

Adam:
And you saw the patch, which I think wasn't just a storage yard. It was a former landfill site, I think?

Joe:
It was.

Adam:
You saw this old landfill site turned into a city storage yard as much more than even just an urban farm. I'm wondering if you could talk about that connection between community and people being stuck inside and what you saw this place that could be.

Joe:
You know, I think, you know, and if I reflect back on the time and I reflect on a lot, it was a really great time to see the value in your community, the people in your community, but the spaces in your community. You know it- in a lot of ways, it felt like a privilege just to be outside. It gave you time to reflect. You know, we slowed down a lot in the world and it gave us time to see the spaces and to see the people and have a little bit more time to realise the value of space, and that space, it was the space that was picked by us. It wasn't a space that was offered to us. We saw that space and we saw the proximity to a really wonderful neighbourhood that is the Kensington Village neighbourhood and we saw the proximity to downtown, to other organisations that were assisting people that were food insecure. We saw this is this was prime real estate to us. You know, it had- you know, there was a time when this was agricultural land. There was a time that you mentioned when this was a landfill site, a storage yard. It was a storage yard when it was on our radar. But it felt like a special space with with the support of the neighbourhood. We are big advocates for the downtown core of the city. You know, we feel that that's the heart of our city. So it it felt like a really special space and maybe we would have missed if it hadn't been for the pandemic.

Adam:
And I mean, it really is remarkable, and with the green space next to it, Cavendish Park, it really is an absolutely remarkable space. And, you know, when I did the drone shot and sort of jumped up high above, you know, you can see, as you point out, the downtown core right almost steps away from this urban farm. I'd like to switch gears a bit...

Joe:
Sure.

Adam:
...and have you take me back to the time when you thought to yourself, I'm going to give Adam a call and I'm going to give web.isod.es a call and talk about producing a documentary about The PATCH.

Joe:
Right.

Adam:
Which was the origination- the original idea here was that it was going to focus just on The PATCH. Well, we've obviously expanded it since then, but back in that moment, what were you really what was in your mind? What were you hoping to achieve by by, you know, having a sit down with me and Sammy?

Joe:
Absolutely. So I'm going to start by giving you a compliment that, you know, we have worked- previous to that experience, we had done some video vignettes through my work at Hutton House, and I had a wonderful experience doing that. Shooting film and shooting video was not something that was on my my radar, was not something I had done for work prior to that. And I had a really great experience. And I saw the impact of utilising media to assist people that we support through Hutton House. It's the use of media, visuals - gave people a voice. It helped people understand- it helped people see the ability, and that was done through the assistance of web.isod.es. We didn't we didn't have that tool. That was not a tool that we had in our wheelhouse prior to that. And when I was thinking about the work that that we were that we do and not just the work that we do as part of The PATCH, but the work that a lot of other great groups do in the city - I knew that we needed a voice outside of our networking groups are meeting, groups are urban agriculture groups - I knew that we needed a larger voice because this is good work, whether it's The PATCH, whether it's Urban Roots, whether it's the Wormery, it's good work and I felt that people needed to see it. And I knew that web.isod.es was the right group to help us realise that vision. I don't know the quality of the product I produced. It was produced by passion to write out. I don't even know if the modern term is a treatment, but I wrote you something and I wrote it from the heart, spelling mistakes included. And I think that's that's where that conversation originated.

Adam:
Yeah, it was- I think I asked you to write something so I could get an understanding, you know, because when you honestly, when when you came by for that- and I think I've talked about the since, that first conversation, you know, you were talking about what a patch was and what a you know, that there's the and, and I really, I, I didn't understand.

Joe:
Right'.

Adam:
I honestly didn't understand - probably because of the scope of it and the nuances of it. I didn't understand that, yeah, how sort of in depth this and broad based this, this idea was And I think that's part of the reason that this podcast series is so important for me...

Joe:
Sure.

Adam:
...is diving into that broad base and kind of going deep rather than wide pretty quickly. And I hope that that's what we're able to accomplish. But since that first meeting, Hutton House has - and through you - has partnered with us to produce this and a number of other things. And I'll be honest, like your team has put in a ton of hours and not just your team, but a lot of the other volunteers that are involved. And I can't see doing that just because- I'm sure I'm a delightful person to spend time with, but I can't believe that's the only reason. Maybe it's Sammy. So but there has to be a sort of, for lack of a better term and not to sound nefarious about it, but there has to be some sort of a of a secondary motive or maybe a primary motive actually is better way to say that. So how does GrowAbility as a project help Hutton House in its mission?

Joe:
You know, I think that when I look at the work that we- that we need to provide our community is sustainability. You know, it's playing, you know, people use this term playing the long game. And there there are there's work, there's pilot projects. But you you want to lay a footprint that will reflect future generations. And the things that we do, we're not doing for ourselves. You know, I'm I'm probably, you know, closer to retirement than when I started my job. It's the work that we do for for children in school right now, for people starting in the workforce, for senior citizens, for our community. And we want to lay down something that's special and we want to lay down something that other people can pick up and that they can continue. And I think the reason for doing something like GrowAbility is- we're lucky. We're- there's a group that are involved in this, you know, volunteers, staff, partners, web.isod.es - that see the value in sustainability, that see the value in people, see the value in community. And I think that with GrowAbility, we can lay down, like I said, a footprint for people to follow and to make their own.

Adam:
I think this sort of blends perhaps into my next question, but it's worth asking because I think that I want to set this context up for for not just this conversation, but for the what we're doing with the podcast in general. And that's that we think we agreed really early on we didn't want this to be about our hometown.

Joe:
Right.

Adam:
That we really saw the values that went into The PATCH, the ideas that sort of founded, you know, food security, all of that we can get to in a moment. We wanted to have this have at least a national footprint.

Joe:
Yes.

Adam:
Well, I know why that was important for me because it you know, it opens things up in terms of a future for the project. It changes the dynamic of a project. But why was having that national- I mean, you could benefit by having this out into the world locally or regionally and, you know, but why was it important for you and for Hutton House or maybe just for you to have this have a a larger footprint, a larger reach than just a regional.

Joe:
Well, you know, and that's a really good point because Hutton House is a local organisation. There's there's no other Hutton Houses in- outside of London, Ontario. And when we look at people, people are people and people are people have the same triumphs and struggles in other communities. You know, I've been lucky enough. I've, I've lived in other communities and I've gone and I've been, you know, the new face in that community. And I've been supported. You know, I've been cared for. I've been embraced. I've been assisted in succeeding in other communities. And these are things that that I think are universal. We want to help each other. We want to help people succeed. We want to help children grow in safe spaces that are sustainable for their future. We want senior citizens to thrive and feel healthy. These are universal themes. And you know this with, you know, with with media. These are things that we can lay down a footprint that people can take up in any community.

Adam:
I think that's- I mean, that as we move through this, that's what sort of really struck me, is that there are people from coast to coast to coast in Canada for whom even one of these ideas is kind of a life, a lifestyle or is part of their life, if not as a style, then as a consequence of circumstance. And so I think there is I really think that, you know, I've certainly fallen in love with this project. I've certainly personally just found profound inspiration and not being sappy about it, but actually a lot of hope in the work that The PATCH is doing because of the first letter in that in that acronym, because of the people who are involved. And I think that that adding to that group is going to be really marvellous thing. So now that we kind of are underway.

Joe:
Right.

Adam:
As of about, you know, 23 minutes ago,.

Joe:
Yup.

Adam:
How have your goals and ideas about the project changed since that first meeting?

Joe:
Yeah, you know, that's a good question. And when I when I think back to that time, it was about highlighting organisations regionally. And I didn't see at that point beyond the people that supported the work that we did during the pandemic. And when when I you know, I wrote my what I call the treatment. When I wrote that to you, it was about people that I knew supported The PATCH, that there would be no PATCH without. But I know that there could be projects like The PATCH anywhere. And it's I think the themes have become more universal with the foundation being people supporting people, people helping people grow. So I think that is that the concept has stayed at the root people and that the themes have just become universal.

Adam:
And, you know, word play like the root. It's not going to be the last time we use those, those those bits of- those puns.

Joe:
We're doing that.

Adam:
Yeah. You know, and it's- so GrowAbility really has three key pillars, and we've kind of talked about this a little bit, but I want to dive pretty deep in not hugely, but I want to kind of explore these. And the three pillars are urban agriculture, food security and community. While it might seem apparent, I think that these are dots that are all also have some kind of thin tension between them. But I really want you to connect those dots for me in terms of this project.

Joe:
So you know, why don't I start at the end and go backwards. So community, it's all about community, you know? It is- We- there are so many distractions in every community that impede us from caring. And I think that's one of the ways that we got here with food. Food insecurity. And I think that, you know, we we all get so busy interpersonal journeys trying to take care of ourselves and take care of our family that we we don't have the time to look at the larger community. And there are people that are struggling with food insecurity. And one of the antidotes of that is urban agriculture. And then to go right back to the end, urban agriculture is community. It's growing some carrots and it's taking it to your neighbour. It's receiving some carrots from your neighbour. It's I've got a little bit of extra land where I've got a balcony. Why don't we grow together? Why don't we take care of our community? Why don't we build a stronger community, happier community, more caring community?

Adam:
And I think the point that you make there is that's a really important one, is that you don't need a big backyard.

Joe:
No.

Adam:
You don't need access to a community garden. And although there there are occurring in more and more urban spaces that are anyone can kind of be an urban farmer. One of things- we've talked a lot about Cavendish.

Joe:
Yes.

Adam:
What we haven't really talked about his Nathan's Urban Farm. And in some ways, it's the genesis of The PATCH.

Joe:
It is.

Adam:
So maybe talk a bit about what- how Nathan's Urban Farm kind of launched this in a way, what it is, and so on.

Joe:
So it's- of course, it's named after somebody. It's named after a very principled young man that we lost too soon. It's named after Nathan T. Deslippe. And Nathan was a community connector. This is the term that people- this is the term I always hear about Nathan, that Nathan was a community connector. And I never met Nathan. But I've been lucky enough to spend a lot of time with Nathan's parents and, you know, I think, you know, parents, they hold their children dear to their heart, and- physically when they can and emotionally when they can't. And they hold Nathan's ideals of being a community connector very dear to their heart. They started the Nathan T. Deslippe Fund to allow their son to have the life he should have had. Mona and Tim, Nathan's parents, approached us- they had always been gracious employers through our supportive employment program. They approached us with an idea at the start of the pandemic - no moss grew on that rolling stone - they said, we've got to do something. We've heard about these towers, these tower gardens. And I love wacky ideas. I love them.

Adam:
I'm familiar.

Joe:
And this this wasn't a bridge too far, but it was it was it was crouching in on it, to buy a bunch of towers and grow a bunch of vegetables and get them out to the community, but, you know what? Everything. Everything was on the table with the pandemic. Everything was on the table with our community, people with mobility issues, people with anxiety, people with agoraphobia. We didn't have time to assess. We didn't have time for committees. It was time to do. And, Mona and Tim are doers, and Hutton House is an organisation that's- at the heart, we do things. We bought a tent in 1952 so that we could offer programs to people. You know, there there's no time to take it to committee. And when the pandemic happened, we got together with Tim and Mona, and we started Nathan's Urban Farm with these towers and these towers that we use, they are- they are medium of of how we grow. They are a tool that we use, and the concept is beyond the tool. But the concept is also part of the tool- that we can grow in innovative spaces. And we grew in an office space, we grew- just down the road from here in the core of the city - we grew, in that first year we did 700 pounds of leafy greens, which is a lot of lettuce. That's, you know, 700 pounds in concrete, doesn't have a big physical footprint. But 700 pounds of lettuce, has a big physical footprint. And for people that didn't have the the ability to go out and get healthy food, it meant the world.

Adam:
And this was in - if I'm not mistaken - this was actually being grown in the office space that Mona's company had occupied, but nobody was in because everybody was working remotely. Is that right?

Joe:
That's right.

Adam:
So really a deep, deep partnership with with Mona and Tim and and the foundation and of course, Jessica as well, their daughter.

Joe:
Of course.

Adam:
So, Nathan, I think, you know, Nathan was a friend of mine.

Joe:
Yes.

Adam:
And we still have- I am still friendly with a number of the people that knew him, and to a person, when I've mentioned that we're doing something around this, their first response is, let me know how I can help.

Joe:
Right.

Adam:
His legacy does carry on. And I'm delighted that it is a part of this project as well and potentially carry even further. So this time next month, GrowAbility will be live and out into the world. What do you want from this? How how will the world be different once we've launched our digital documentary?

Joe:
So we're here right now. And I started as a deaf blind intervener in 1996, assisting people in the community. Hand over hand sign language. Going to the bank. Going to doctor's appointments. Fast forward to where we are right now. I did see where we were being where I would be. Social services is quiet work. It's impactful work. Where I hope we go with that is to change that narrative because you don't need to be a professional to do this work. You just- you need to care. And I'm hoping that this- I've used the term footprint a couple of times that this helps people create a footprint, whether they're somebody, you know, in high school, a senior citizen. Someone that's got a little extra time to work. Someone that's working in the social services field to to look at something, to look at wacky ideas, wacky ideas or good, wacky ideas change the world. I hope that GrowAbility is a catalyst.

Adam:
I didn't let you see any of these questions in advance.

Joe:
Nope.

Adam:
You might have spied one when we were doing a quick test earlier, but is there anything you want to add? Is there anything that I didn't cover.

Joe:
You know? Yeah. So there- so I- I'm not somebody that that is necessarily, you know, that was, you know, drawn to to the use of of media- was drawn to the use of film to champion the work that we do. That... That, you know, it was, you know, helping people get jobs, helping people go to the bank, do it, doing the things that we're supposed to do in social services. And the ability to be a part of something that is- to be a part of GrowAbility, it's wonderful. And I see the immense value in utilising our team, our group of people that have come together to use this wonderful medium to help people. And it's an it's an avenue that I never thought that I would go down, but I'm so happy that I'm going down it and yeah, and thank you.

Adam:
Well, we will make you a star on the Internet in a better way than most people become stars on the Internet.

Joe:
Totally.

Adam:
So where can people reach you online? Where can people find out about more about the PATCH or Hutton House?

Joe:
Sure. So there are two websites. There's huttonhouse.com. There's thePatchLondon.ca. I'm Joe at GrowAbilityPod.com

Adam:
And then I think we'll put links to socials certainly in the show notes and then on our website as well, make sure those are all up there as you want them. So thank you so much. I want to return to you in just a moment, But before then, I want to say I don't know that I'm going to get much more screen time, so I want to take a moment to thank Hutton House for their commitment and belief in this. And of course, the entire team of staff and volunteers at The PATCH for all your support through this process. And I'm looking at you, Gabor, Sara, Doruntina, Holly, Scott, Makayla, Penny and of course, Faye - thank you all for everything through this process. And Joe, thank you for letting me take over your seat for this first episode. But more than that, for being an absolutely amazing collaborator on this project.

Joe:
Thank you so much, Adam. Appreciate it.

Adam:
GrowAbility is hosted by Joe Gansevles and Holly Pugsley and produced by Joe Gansevles and me, Adam Caplan. Lighting and Camera Design by Kevin Labonte, with production support from Oliver Gansevles. GrowAbility's production was made much easier with the help of Jesse Chen, Teri Fujioka, Zach Grossman, Zachary Meads, Leo Shin and Debora Camargo from Fanshawe Colleges Broadcasting Television and Film Production program. Thanks to Janice Robinson from Fanshawe for arranging these students invaluable participation. Holly Pugsley of Just Keep Growing provided the plants and made sure they looked great. Audience and Marketing Strategy by Japsimar Kaur Mig lani with support from Tess Alcock. Our theme music is Wandering William by Adrian Walhter and can be found on SoundStripe. Adam Caplan - once again, that's me - is web.isod.es's Executive Producer, and Sammy Orlowski is our Senior Creator. Special thanks to Jennifer Routly from Siskinds The Law Firm, for arranging to host us at their beautiful head office in downtown London, Ontario. GrowAbility is a web.isod.es production and is produced with the support and participation of the team at The PATCH and Hutton House.